Response to "Church" Comment

This post is in response to Naomi’s very thoughtful comment on Church. Even now, I'm not sure I have all the correct 'words/ideas' to fully explain some Orthodox thought, but I'm going to give it a try. Maybe it'll help me organize some of my own thoughts! :-)

First, there is a lot I agree with that you have said. But I'm going to try to explain why the Orthodox thinks that it has the most 'correctness.' But first I need to clarify that my understanding may be off base in some places and I hope anyone reading this who really knows what they're talking about would feel free to jump in.

The Orthodox Church says that the Church has been promised to be preserved throughout all time until Jesus’ return. If that is true, then there is to be a visible church that has been preserved. The Orthodox would go so far as to say the only church that can claim it has maintained the beliefs through all time as all have believed is the Orthodox Church (something about St. Vincent’s writing* – I still need to read it). Now that isn't to say that the Orthodox Church is perfect - which is where I agree with you. I think someday we will all find out what isn’t right. And I, personally, think that there is some right in Protestant belief that is lacking in Orthodoxy. For example, from what I've seen the Orthodox downplay of emotion in faith has appeared to keep it from reaching out as much as evangelicals have. The mindset in the Orthodox Church tends more toward the Jewish mindset of "come to us" rather than "we'll come to you". And I also think that sometimes the Orthodox faith acts a little like the big brother who thinks just because he’s the oldest that he’s always right in everything.

But where you say we all have a part of the fullness, the Orthodox faith would agree that many outside of Orthodoxy have a part of the faith, whereas Orthodoxy has all of the fullness of the faith.

And there are critical differences that it will point out which keep Orthodox Christians from being able to be in full communion with Christians outside the Orthodox faith. One of the biggest is its view of the Eucharist. It is not merely a symbol, it is the actual body and blood of Christ with power as such. Also, the meaning of baptism and chrismation. But I think the biggest difference is with the reason why Christ had to die for us in the first place. Western thought is that Christ died to defeat sin. Eastern belief is that Christ died to defeat death. The whole focus is not that we are bad, it is that we die. It’s like I grew up my whole life with this idea that God is this huge judge who demands justice. Then I’m faced with the idea that the reason why we sin is because we die, not that we die because we sin.

One more thing. You said, “And they are inherently human systems therefore not perfect.” The Orthodox would say that you are right. Every other system is inherently human. But the reason why the Orthodox faith has been preserved is because it is not inherently human. It is tradition handed down from the beginning that has been preserved by God and not changed by humans. No one person dictates what the Church believes. Anything defined/redefined is only done through an Ecumenical Council. Which could be part of the reason why suggesting anything new to the Orthodox faith is unheard of. And nothing is changed on a whim. The Bible is not interpreted in accordance with our personal world views, but rather through the traditions handed down from generation to generation. The Orthodox would claim that any deviations from the “traditional beliefs” come from the thoughts of individuals rather than the Church as a collective. (okay, that just sounds a little bit Borg-ish *lol*)

On a side note, I think the Orthodox Church is attempting to be relevant to today. It’s not like it thinks we are in the 16th century, and there are many in the Orthodox Church who think it is long overdue for another Ecumenical Council. If I were to be critical, I would say one of the reasons why the Orthodox Church doesn’t make a difference in North America is because of its unwillingness to change its culture while maintaining its faith. Too many of the churches want to stick with the “old” ways that have to do with ethnic background and equate them with the tenets of the faith rather than recognizing that there is culture here that isn’t necessarily distinctively Ukrainian or Greek or whatever. The Church needs to realize that to reach people now doesn’t mean to make them more ethnically Orthodox. And, really, there needs to be a ‘revival’ in the Orthodox Church where people realize that being Orthodox isn’t fire insurance. Now, I know they’d never say it exactly that way – it’s more an Evangelical saying. But the revival needs to be of the hearts, changing attitudes as well as behaviour. Being Orthodox is not some elitist club that makes a person extra special. Just like loud, raunchy Praise & Worship doesn’t make a better worshiper, either. It’s not about the style (or at least it shouldn’t be). It’s about the faith.

Well, I’m not entirely sure that I answered my questions, either. And there is much more that could be said, but they’ll have to be said another day.

*Bruce knows the St. Vincent thing. “Hold fast that faith which has been believed everywhere, always and by all”